Your comments, George, have a ring of truth about the ID. If you were on board there may have been a number of indication of previous ID, in the registration certificate, survey reports etc, or some official marking. Incidentally, do you recall where she was registered?

I am not so sure however about the origin of this batch of ships.

Even if it was general policy for different arms of the Government - Army, Navy, USMC etc - to use different yards for small auxiliaries, there were many exceptions. Quite a few yards building Army FS vessels also built for the Navy - J K Welding, J H Mathis, Wheeler/Whitestone, Birchfield Boiler, for example. Over a hundred FS vessels were cancelled by the Army at the end of the war, though I do not know, from data available while I am on vacation, whether any had been awarded to Albina (maybe there is something more on this at home).

I do not agree that the four larger cargo ships point towards post-war orders. These were US Maritime Commission orders in the C1-M series (actually a unique twin-screw variant C1-MT-BU1 fitted for lumber) - the first one was completed in Nov 1945, by which time the first three of the small "FS-type" were also delivered. This seems far too soon after VJ on 2 Sept for them to be post-war orders, though I do not know at what date the the yards were released from their service obligations.

If I may, I would like to revert to this discussion at the end of the month when I am at home.

David

Thank you, George. There has been a blank space in my records for 31 years on this one. Now it is complete. She must have carried the name CARMELA II in the 1980s in-between when she was named SERENA and ROSELYN and Lloyd's Register didn't cotton on to the changes of ownership/name

CARMELA II

LR/IMO: 5278793
Year: 1946
Name: SANSAPOR
Type: Cargo ship
Launch Date: 14.12.45
Flag: NLD
Date of completion: 2.46
Tons: 556
Link: 1174
DWT: 465
Yard No: 228
Lenght overall: 55.2
LPP: 52.2
Country of build: USA
Beam: 8.9
Builder: Albina E&M Works
Location of yard: Portland, Ore.
Number of screws/Mchy/Speed(kn): 1D-8.5
51 LANGSA - 59 PINTU MAS - 64 JOAN D'ARC - 65 MORRO - 66 JOAN D'ARC - 78 SERENA - ROSELYN
deleted 1999

In 1984 I was in on a group taking photos in Singapore, and we boarded the CARMELA II. At that time we somehow positively identified her as the ex SANSAPOR, which had the later names LANGSA, PINTU MAS, JOAN D’ ARC, MORRO, JOAN D’ARC, SERENA, and ROSELYN before becoming CARMELA II. I can no longer remember how we determined this.
It has long been said that these were FS type vessels ordered by the Army and cancelled, but I’ve found no evidence of this, and question if they weren’t among the orders foreign companies made in U.S. yards starting in 1945, since the U.S. yards had an abundance of steel, were undamaged by war, and were starved for work. Indeed the dimensions and layout reflect the FS design, but, for example, the C3-style hulls built directly for the Netherlands were never begun as Martiime Commission C3’s.
The late maritime author Len Sawyer was firm in the belief that these were cancelled Army vessels, and he even commented that the original name of the first of the class, SISTEN, was originally an Army name.
Contrasting with this, the mass-produced small Army vessels were assigned numbers, and only received names after being in service, and in most cases, these names were locally assigned and never made it into Army records.
Another factor contributing to disagreement was that, during the War, to avoid the yards setting up price competition between agencies, nearly all the yards were assigned to one particular agency (Navy, Army, or Maritime Commission). Albina, builder of this class, consistently built Navy vessels during the War. Following the Navy construction, there were four hull numbers built as larger coastal freighters for the lumber trade before the hull numbers for this class was assigned, leading me to believe the contract was let after the wartime control of the yards was released.
I’d sure welcome comments on all these opinions I’ve made here. This is the first time I’ve been able to put them up for scrutiny in a public forum

Miramar has total 21 ships of this type, but not one was never named CARMELA II
They had different flags as Honduras, Panama, Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia
Rgds. Juergen

Will certainly need a breakthrough from somewhere new. Of the 20, a dozen have no final history that I can find - just lost trace of.

Looking at the two pics, she seems to have changed hands and smartened up between 1985 and 1987 - and Chris's later one has a small "SL" on the funnel.

What about the ensign - rolled up in both, but doesn't look like Indonesia, Singapore, Malaysia, Bangladesh, Panama. Could it be Thailand - at least two the sisters went there? Or perhaps just an FOC?

Hi Bob,

Don't hold your breath, the question came up a few years ago and hasn't been resolved yet !
http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=1285431

Cheers
Neil